DevilDog's posts

[Bib]

DDog,

>during those weeks you are working back up to higher weight are you just doing like 3 sets? more or less?<

The most I would hang, testing, etc, is five. Usually three or less. Nothing to write home about. No concern about fatigue, etc.

>i would tend to think you only are doing a handful of sets because anymore takes a bit more conditioning to work up to.<

Just no reason to hang more, for what I am doing.

>I hung through soft tissue pain for nearly my whole career and that is not the way to go.<

You got that right.

Bigger

[DevilDog]

Bigger,

just giving a quick update.

it appears that my gains are stagnant once again. although i have moved up to 16.5lbs (more than my original max months ago at 15lbs) i am still not gaining. Something isn't right here because although my unit is hanging lower during my sets and i am stretching skin almost every other day the ruler shows that my BPFSL has moved down in length??? I dont really understand that.

That's ok because it just means i haven't reached the weight necessary for pulling out the resisting fibers needed to drop my exit point. I'll get there but another thing i am concerned about is that the fatigue i am feeling isn't that controlled fatigue throughout the session it is much more of sharp fatigue. when i experimented with this back in april or may when i was doing BTC i could hang 15lbs 4x a day and not really reach the controlled fatigue. when i hung 13lbs for a 6 set session i reached controlled fatigue and dropped my weight accordingly.

I think that sharper fatigue signals early signs of potential macro tears but i am monitoring it closely and not overextending myself. i want to keep moving up in weight because i believe heavy weights are the key to making progress, but like i said i am just taking it slow not making the same mistakes i made first time around a year ago.

[Bib]

DDog,

Not really sure what you are writing about, sharp fatigue, etc.

As long as you have been hanging, and as much as you have gained, it is not unusual for gains to slow, reach a plateau. Be sure to keep up with your test results. But also, 16.5 lbs is not a whole lot, considering how long you have been in. The next limting factors may require more stress than that. Not saying to move up, considering what you wrote about fatigue. Just take it easy, and think things through.

Bigger

[DevilDog]

Bigger,

just giving an update no real concerns i cant figure out myself, just running things by you to get the guru's perspective is all.

16.5lbs definitely is not a lot and i am just about a year into this game. You must understand though that i never hung heavy before and moved up in stresses way too fast and as a result never conditioned my soft tissue and jumped in to hanging 4-5hrs a day for months... not this time around and I am moving up in weight as fast as a I can without being too dangerous, that is 1-1.5lbs every week.

I am back at that plateau effect that i was last Feb-March. So it took me about 2 full months to regain all of my lossed gains starting from scratch after a 2 month break. But i have 1.5" - 2" inner shaft left to pull out so up in weights i will continue.

[Bib]

DDog,

>not this time around and I am moving up in weight as fast as a I can without being too dangerous, that is 1-1.5lbs every week.<

I did not mean that you had to move up quickly in weight. What you outlined above is about right. And you may not have to move up that much every week. Just go by fatigue.

What you need to understand is, you may have to bump up the stress to get past the plateau. Not for much time. If you are doing a good bit of movement, crunches, swinging, bouncing, that may do it. Once you are well back in the swing, you can try moving up a good bit in weight, for say five minutes, during one of your early sets. Whatever you can do, within reason, to break through.

Bigger

[DevilDog]

Bigger,

I did not mean that you had to move up quickly in weight. What you outlined above is about right. And you may not have to move up that much every week. Just go by fatigue.

I did not mean to write things that way... hard to see the tone in someone's writing vs a conversation. I want to go up in weight as quickly as possible but i also want to move up in weight as controlled as possible. Aristotle's mean between 2 extremes, not too much... not too little.

just takes a long time to develop the wisdom through experience that everything outlined in your product guide (as well as critique) is that way because someone has been where we all have many times and figured shit out a long time before us ha.

i very well could move up to 20lbs or more for that matter, and hang 5 mins or so, but right now I really am liking this consistent weight progression because it allows my soft tissue to really adapt to the stresses CORRECTLY. Towards the end of the week I can hang my max weight for 2 sets in the morning and about 3 in the noon (I do 2-3 sets in the morning and about 5 in the afternoon).

Now if only my skin could catch up with the stresses...

[DevilDog]

Bigger,

Ok now im starting to encounter a big problem.

I feared the worst moving up to 17.5lbs as it has been becoming an increasing issue.. that is, the hanger after my first set once all the fluid is squished out of the matrix, is sitting right on the sides of my head even when the top teeth are all the way meshed. The problem is of course that the hanger isn't tight enough to grip the internals more solidly.

Now here's where my issue is. The bottom hex nuts on my hardcore are tightened all the way down.. i cant tighten them any further and yet I cant get the hanger tight enough while im hanging heavier weight.

Here is my wrap: 3x8 SS material underwrap with 3x15" or so ace wrap on top. I have experimented many times using more wrap and less. anything more than 15" of ace wrap is too much and I can't get a good grip on the internals, and anything less than 15" does not allow me to fill out once I am seated in the hanger. my WFG is as much as i can make it without losing grip on the internals

The ace wrap or SS material are the issue; I know they are both a little bulky but over time they have hardened quite a bit.

One solution might be to change my wrap? But im not sure that would do much because my hanger isn't sliding... I am gripping the internals properly i just need it to be tighter.

The other solution which is plausible is to switch back to my padded starter. currently the bottom hex nuts on the padded are set almost half an inch or more apart and the shaft well is already smaller than that of the hardcore. Obviously id need to use a lot less wrap with the paddes starter but maybe i wouldn't encounter the same situation with the hardcore?

Something else- a while back when i took the padding off the hanger it was perfect becasue i could tighten it down a hell of a lot, get a solid grip on the internals because there was no padding and virtually unlimited adjustments for tightening it further. but of course it wasn't nearly as comfortable as when i got the hardcore.

what do you make of this?

[Bib]

DDog,

>Now here's where my issue is. The bottom hex nuts on my hardcore are tightened all the way down.. i cant tighten them any further and yet I cant get the hanger tight enough while im hanging heavier weight.<

First, it is not good that the inner hex nuts are all the way in. If the top gap is zero, that is not good either. You need some room in the top gap in order to tighten more during a set. Hard to explain, but if you can move the bottom hex nuts out on the bottom, have a bit of extra top gap, then you can keep the correct attitude of the inner fingers, / \.

>Here is my wrap: 3x8 SS material underwrap with 3x15" or so ace wrap on top.<

I just cannot see how guys can use Ace wrap to hang. I tried it a bunch, and totally discounted it as a viable option. It is just too bulky to use.

>I have experimented many times using more wrap and less. anything more than 15" of ace wrap is too much and I can't get a good grip on the internals, and anything less than 15" does not allow me to fill out once I am seated in the hanger. my WFG is as much as i can make it without losing grip on the internals<

If you have a material that is not as bulky, like Tband, you can add more functional WFG, and it will not compress like Ace wrap does.

>One solution might be to change my wrap? But im not sure that would do much because my hanger isn't sliding... I am gripping the internals properly i just need it to be tighter.<

That is the ticket. It does not take much more wrap, if it is not bulky, to add enough functional WFG, in order to move the bottom hex nuts out a bit, and be able to tighten more.

>The other solution which is plausible is to switch back to my padded starter. currently the bottom hex nuts on the padded are set almost half an inch or more apart and the shaft well is already smaller than that of the hardcore. Obviously id need to use a lot less wrap with the paddes starter but maybe i wouldn't encounter the same situation with the hardcore?<

You should be able to easily hang much more than 20 lbs with the Starter. But you still need to work out your wrapping scheme.

>what do you make of this?<

Change your wrap scheme. I know you found something that worked for a long long time. But this is what I mean about refining your technique as you move up in weight. This is a must. Your previous wrap scheme worked well at lower weights. But not now. This is totally normal. Now, do not be hard headed. Abandon the Ace, and learn a new way to wrap. It will take a bit of experimentation, but the time will be well worth it.

Bigger

[DevilDog]

Bigger,

had quite a hell of a night trying to get everything right before wanting to throw the hanger at the fucking wall.

First, it is not good that the inner hex nuts are all the way in. If the top gap is zero, that is not good either. You need some room in the top gap in order to tighten more during a set. Hard to explain, but if you can move the bottom hex nuts out on the bottom, have a bit of extra top gap, then you can keep the correct attitude of the inner fingers, / \.

I completely understand how the hanger works that is, you want the shaft to be low in the shaft well with the angles /\ pushing the shaft lower into the well fully gripping the internals. too high and you risk injury to the dorsal vein etc... too low doesn't grip the sides correctly etc.

I just cannot see how guys can use Ace wrap to hang. I tried it a bunch, and totally discounted it as a viable option. It is just too bulky to use.

I have had a lot of trouble in the past with thera and did not like how it would almost always get caught in the teeth of the hanger, top and bottom. This is the main reason why i went with ace.. so it wouldn't get caught in the hanger. And over time the wrap does harden a little bit and loses a little bit of its bulkiness.

That is the ticket. It does not take much more wrap, if it is not bulky, to add enough functional WFG, in order to move the bottom hex nuts out a bit, and be able to tighten more.

I added well more wrap than I ever have and still had the same issue with not being able to grasp the internals due to the increased wrap. yes i could move the hex nuts out and my unit sit perfectly in the shaft well / \ but it just slid right on the sides of my head before stopping.

You should be able to easily hang much more than 20 lbs with the Starter. But you still need to work out your wrapping scheme.

Change your wrap scheme. I know you found something that worked for a long long time. But this is what I mean about refining your technique as you move up in weight. This is a must. Your previous wrap scheme worked well at lower weights. But not now. This is totally normal. Now, do not be hard headed. Abandon the Ace, and learn a new way to wrap. It will take a bit of experimentation, but the time will be well worth it.


here are the results from my trials... after i started keeping track from doing it so many times different wrap and hex settings.

1: i doubled up on thera 2 strips of 2x13" pieces used to make my WFG 6.1"
-bottom hex nuts 5/8" hanger slid down on top of the head and almost off. way too much gap when tightened all the way down between top bolt and thera wrap
-bottom hex nuts 9/16" slid down on top of the head virtually no grip on the internals (tightened all the way down)
-bottom hex nuts 1/2" wrap caught in the teeth, unit was sitting just about too high in the shaft well (tightened all the way down)
-bottom hex nts 3/8" better grip on the internals but teeth caught in the wrap starting to pinch skin badly. hanger still slipped down right on top of the head (about 3-4 more turns with the top tightening bolt).
2: 3x10" tshirt underwrap 1 strip of 2x13" thera wrap WFG: 5 3/4"
-bottom hex nuts 5/8" apart, hanger slid all the way down, no grip on the internals. (tightened all the way down)
-bottom hex nuts 5/16" apart, hanger slid down no grip on the internals (tightened all the way down)
-bottom hex nuts 1/4" apart, hanger had mild grip but after 2 minutes of 16.5lbs hanger slid all the way down on sides of head (tightened all the way down). wrap getting caught in teeth.
3: tshirt underwrap T band WFG: 6"
-bottom hex nuts 1" apart, hanger slid all the way down no grip (tightened all the way down)
-bottom hex nuts 5/16" apart, hanger had decent grip on internals but eventually slid all the way down again along with wrap caught in the teeth. (tightened all the way down)
4: tshirt underwrap 2 strips of 2x13" pieces of thera WFG 6.5"
-bottom hex nuts 1" apart couldn't even grip the internals wrap caught in teeth.
-bottom hex nuts 1 3/16" apart too much wrap caught in the teeth, virtually no grip on internals could push the hanger off by hand.

-wanting to rip the hanger apart with my hands.

[awstev]

Hi DevilDog,

About 2 months ago I was playing around with my wrapping and decided to experiment by adding something to the hanger's fingers to make them bigger ... IOW make the internal area of the hanger smaller so that I could either 1/ Use less wrap or 2/ Increase the hex nuts further. Like everyone reports, both 1/ and 2/ make for better attachments.

I ended up applying 5 - 6 strips of Elastoplast tape across both sides of the fingers of the hanger. The tape is fairly thick and sticks to itself. While not as hard as the hanger itself, it is still fairly hard, and follows/retains the contours of the fingers, and therefore I still get a good grip on my internals.

http://www.safetysuppliescanada.com/new ... ts_id=5976

I would guess that with the 5 - 6 strips of Elastoplast, the internal space is reduced by 5mm or so, which means I was able to cut my wrap down.

I am not sure what bib thinks of this idea, but I have often wondered whether it would be possible to have a "lower girth" HC starter model with everything shrunk down a bit so that guys with lower flaccid girth could get away with using less wrap, and wider hex nuts. Adding the tape was my attempt to try this.

The nice thing about this idea is that if it doesn't work for you, you can just remove the tape.

Hope this helps.

[DevilDog]

Came back after i cooled down a little bit

Awstev,

That is exactly the problem i am having with my hardcore.. the fingers are too small and spaced too far apart it seems. with the bottom hex nuts down all the way the bottom of the fingers measure just shy of 1 1/2". the gap on my padded starter, with the hex nuts close to a half inch out, measures about half inch.

I remember way back when, when i removed the padding on the starter the fingers were huge to me back then! but essentially they were much more efficient at gripping at higher weight. the bottom and top channels remained the same but the fingers really allowed me to grip efficiently, much of what you are talking about when you say make the internal area of the hanger smaller so you can do both increase the bottom hex nuts as you advance and 2 use less wrap.

absolutely, too much wrap and you really cant do anything.. there is no replacement when it comes to grip the internals with more wrap; trying to accomodate for that lack of being able to tighten the bottom hex nuts. and now that i have maxed out the bottom hex nuts on the hardcore i cant go any further.

that really is a brilliant idea Awstev using material to increase the size of the hanger fingers... really great idea thank you very much for you input it is greatly appreciated. glad someone else out there could relate. it's kind of on the road to making a padded starter haha. but having that hard plastic in the long run really is much more of a better grip than anything which is why many switch to a hardcore or remove the padding later in their hanging careers.

I will without a doubt try it out. i would just like something to be as hard as that hanger plastic but i dont know what.

[Bib]

DDog,

Of course, you can always just file down each side of the top teeth of the hardcore, to allow it to close more. About an eighth to quarter inch should give you a hell of a lot more room to close the hanger.

If you want, you can send it back to me, and I will do it for you.

Bigger

[awstev]

That is exactly the problem i am having with my hardcore.. the fingers are too small and spaced too far apart it seems. with the bottom hex nuts down all the way the bottom of the fingers measure just shy of 1 1/2". the gap on my padded starter, with the hex nuts close to a half inch out, measures about half inch.

1 1/2" looks too much to me. My hex nuts are set so that the halves of the hanger are 1/2" at the base side and 5/8" at the glans side of the hanger apart. This gives me a 1/2" gap between the fingers just below the top channel and 3/4" between the fingers just above the bottom channel. This is taped, but I am guessing the tape only reduces it by 1/8" or so. (In case i am using the wrong word, by fingers I mean the part of the hanger that is covered by tape in the pics I attached above.)

I remember way back when, when i removed the padding on the starter the fingers were huge to me back then! but essentially they were much more efficient at gripping at higher weight.

I have never removed the gel from my starter ... I always assumed that there would be more space than the HC.

... it's kind of on the road to making a padded starter haha ... i would just like something to be as hard as that hanger plastic but i dont know what.

I had thought about using epoxy, or something like that to build up the fingers, but I am not a great handyman, and couldn't risk stuffing up my hanger and not being able to do any sets (or go back to the gel starter) until a replacement arrived. That would be very upsetting!

The tape has compressed down a bit and feels fairly hard now, but if there is a way to do it so that the extended fingers are just as hard as the original fingers, I would love to know.

I find that my wrap experiments go in fits and starts. I can be happy with my wrap/attachment for months, and then something changes (like a piece of old theraband rips) and the attachment doesn't feel right. I will then experiment around with different things until it feels good again. That can be very frustrating. I was in the middle of one of those experimenting phases when I added the tape. I added it and things felt good again. That was two months ago and it is still feeling good. However i am sure that sooner or later I will be back experimenting looking for a better attachment

[awstev]

Hi Bib,

Of course, you can always just file down each side of the top teeth of the hardcore, to allow it to close more. About an eighth to quarter inch should give you a hell of a lot more room to close the hanger.

Never thought to do this. As always your knowledge is one step ahead!

Next time I am experimenting with wrap/attaching, proceeding slowly, I might give this a try.

Thanks!

[Bib]

awstev,

>Next time I am experimenting with wrap/attaching, proceeding slowly, I might give this a try.<

If not enough throw is your issue, then cutting the teeth down will work. Very simple. Just mark the edge of each tooth with a pencil, how much you want to remove, and file down to the mark. Keep the same angle, shape of the edge.

Bigger